will you help me?
so this is a very interactive post.
i've been thinking a lot lately about what makes a song "good". and so i'm asking for your help. tell me what you think makes a good song. what causes you to listen to a song over and over again? the lyrics? the musical creativity? the artists voice? the style? what is it? and please don't give me pad answers. i really really want to know what it is for you. will you aid me in understanding what gets to you about music. specifically. examples. anything to understand.
please?
thanks so much.
cheers my dear friends.
posted by vicky @ 9:14 AM
13 Comments:
First of all, I hope you don't mind me following the trail of links from camp-evergreen's blog to yours. I definitely never see anyone from camp anymore since I'm stuck up here in Edmonton, so this all I’ve got. No offence to your blog, but I’d rather see all you guys in person.
I think that a musician succeeds when she/he can communicate the feeling of the song as clearly through the instruments as the lyrics.
The bands that I respect (you might not, pending your taste in music) are ones who generally do a great job of affecting the listener emotionally, not just intellectually with unique or true lyrics. The message is often in the lyrics, but the force of a song comes through the … not lyrics part. For an example that I think most people are familiar with, I think the Beatles did a fantastic job of getting the mood that the song was supposed to set across, mainly with their vocals, but sometimes with the trippy studio effects that they added in (see Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds).
Anyways, that’s what one person likes about music. Hope that was of some help.
Songs are deemed good by me for differnt reasons,and with every guidline there is always an exception...
in no particular order
-the lyrcis are well written (not riduously cliche' but not to obscure either)
-the music is well put together- not ridicously predictable but not obscure either)
-it means something to me (the lyrics could apply to life at a certain time, or the song could have been playing when something really cool/terible happened DISCLAIMER: When something terrible happens while a song is playing that song is usually not liked forever there after)
-it fits into the style of music i like e.g country music songs are rarely (if at all) deemed anywhere close to good
-if its catchy (if it gets stuck in my head and i can sing it to myself without thinking 'i wish i had another song stuck in my head')
-first impressions are usually pretty permanent (someimtes a song will be hated when it first was heard but will eventually grow on me e.g. 'all hell for a basement'-Big Sugar
its also possible to think nothing about the song then suddenly decide its one of the best songs on the album i.e. 'Stand and feel your worth'- Thrice
or ill hate the song when i first hear it and continue to grow in loathing every time the band or song is mentioned or i hear the song played i.e 'Drops of Jupiter' -train)
-the 'non over played ness' of the song (sometimes i will get sick of a song having heard it too many times in too many places with too many people etc.)
- what the at particular band has put out before (it gives the song something to be compared to if the song before was great it might be hard to live up to, on the other hand it might be phenomanal, e.g. nickelback I liked 'photograph' but thought the next single 'animals' was absolute crap)
-the live preformance vs. the c.d. Option A: if one sees a band live then buys a c.d. the songs never seem to quite live up to the intensity of the live show
obtion B: the live show is so tereible that one is put off from any album the band have ever done
Option C: all of the above (i.e. combination of the previous options)
Thats all i can think of for now
first impressions and the meaning somthing to me are the most important ones I think hope my thoughts help someday if we hang out we can talk more cause I can usually talk for long periods of time about music
okay here goes:
music is first and foremost about emotion. About the closest thing that two humans can share is a similar emotion and a good song can help people do that.
But for a song to be really good it has to reach beyond emotion to the intellect or imagination.
Lyrics are cheaper ways of engaging the mind and they must always fight the tendency to predict the hearer's idea. words that keep me soming back to rediscover thier ideas are good.
the sounds must ultimately be provocative. You must be able to get lost inside them wonder where they started. but they should also lead me effortlessly and imperceptibly off the cliff -
much is made of distinctive sounds but this should never be an end in itself - distinction should only be a tool to create the perfect path for the listener to wander down.
thank you for your responses. i really appreciate your input. i'm also wondering what about music causes a person to become emotional? why can we be manipulated by music (not that its wrong...i love it)?
I don't think that we'll ever understand why music manipulates us. Though I hesitate to use the word manipulate. It is easy to see how the same words put to music impact us more than when they are spoken. I think that the mystery of it is a gift from God and we'll never fully understand. As is with all art. If we could truly take apart art and explain how it works, it wouldn't be art. Art transcends our understanding. If we could fully express God with our intellect, we wouldn't need art. But art gets inside of us and ministers to our spirit when our intellect cannot contain His glory.
So, enough arty ranting. To answer your question about song writing. My song writing really started to come together when I stopped trying to answer my own questions. I felt so unfaithful as a Christian if I didn't answer my doubts within the same song. I guess a lot of Christian artists feel this way also and this is why Christian music is largely ineffectual. I think you have this concept already, judging by the poetic nature of this blog. My advice when writing is.....don't settle, never say "that's good enough" and enjoy the journey!
Oh....and avoid the "With or Without You" chord progression syndrome!
(I'm not really sure what a pad answer is, but I hope that wasn't one :)
hey Vicky
I was trying to remember some of the popular worship music we did at camp, and I could only remember a few. Do you know the names of some of the songs we did? Thanks
email me
mysolace@gmail.com
What creates emotional manipulation in music?
a gospel presentation and some keyboard stylings with lots of seconds.
Vicky, you need to update this. I miss reading what's on your mind.
I read this in an article called "Inside Worship: The Sacred Trust of Songwriting" by Brent Helming. I thought of your question (which continues to be my question also).
"Music is not a passive medium. God created it (Gen 4:21) to wield incredible power capable of bypassing the mind while engaging the heart. It has been called the 'universal language' for that reason."
Feel free to blame luke for any ramblings/rantings/incoherrent jestures. Gotta love links.
At any rate, this is my 2 cents. What makes a good song good is if a writer is really able to communicate the emotion they're feeling at that moment through the lyrics and the tone of the song to their audience. Some of my all time favourite songs are so beautifully crafted with bare emotion and speaks about a season or situation I'm going through or something that speaks to some of the darkest part of a bad situation. Additionally, songs that speak about character flaws seem to strike a very close connection to its listeners. Songs about searching for identity, feeling lost, dispair and things like that are some of the best examples of "good songs"...just turn on the radio and you'll hear a ton of them. For me, my favourite good song right now is Faust, Midas And Myself by Switchfoot.
Anyway, it was cool bumping into you at humpty's that one day. Hope everything's cool for you.
- josh
www.myspace.com/joshysblog
Feel free to blame luke for any ramblings/rantings/incoherrent jestures. Gotta love links.
At any rate, this is my 2 cents. What makes a good song good is if a writer is really able to communicate the emotion they're feeling at that moment through the lyrics and the tone of the song to their audience. Some of my all time favourite songs are so beautifully crafted with bare emotion and speaks about a season or situation I'm going through or something that speaks to some of the darkest part of a bad situation. Additionally, songs that speak about character flaws seem to strike a very close connection to its listeners. Songs about searching for identity, feeling lost, dispair and things like that are some of the best examples of "good songs"...just turn on the radio and you'll hear a ton of them. For me, my favourite good song right now is Faust, Midas And Myself by Switchfoot.
Anyway, it was cool bumping into you at humpty's that one day. Hope everything's cool for you.
- josh
www.myspace.com/joshysblog
This is kind of a trip for me because I'm doing a songwriting seminar at PBC next week.
There are so many things that make a good song so let me offer my humble opinion.
#1. Does the music actually evoke a response? I'm not talking about the revulsion one feels from listening to a cookie-cutter pop tune. Does it bring actual emotions to the surface? Does it cause anger, tears, joy etc.?
#2. If it's a song with lyrics, are they good lyrics? Are they clever, or poetic (or both), do they sound honest?
#3. Does the song avoid cliche? This is a pretty significant one for me. How many more songs do we need that use the chord progression for "With or Without You"? Honestly.
anyway, I know that's not much but that's all I've got for now.....I should work harder on that seminar.
peace
Jesse
At risk of being terribly simplistic, I think what really makes music so beautiful and "good" is that noone could ever encapsulate what makes it good.
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